Proposition de règlement pour le CDM 2014

[clbrun]

i may be wrong, but i am a bit confused : if we use SB, we also make barrages? for which ranks ?

i saw "13 vs 20", isn't it a bit too much
i don't see any reason to change the number of barrages rounds anyway

and for the bonifs, i find the low places (1/8 and 1/4) gives peanuts compared to top4. it has always been a bit like that, but not at this point i guess.
based on 2009, the bonifs would have been more like :
Barrage : XXpts
1/8 finale : 250pts
1/4 final : 600pts
1/2 final (=4°) : 950 pts
3° : 1300 pts
2° : 1650 pts
1er : 2000 pts
but it's hard to have an opinion  since we have no true idea about what would be the regular phasis points... 

[djo]

i may be wrong, but i am a bit confused : if we use SB, we also make barrages? for which ranks ?
i saw "13 vs 20", isn't it a bit too much

From now just for the two last qualify : 16vs17 and 15vs18 => like 2012 and 2013

and for the bonifs, i find the low places (1/8 and 1/4) gives peanuts compared to top4.
but it's hard to have an opinion  since we have no true idea about what would be the regular phasis points... 

These are the bonif of 2013... but each year eternal debate here
What would be the regular phasis points = also like 2013 : A perfect is 1000 points then you have to see the ranking of the SB, the points are equal to the column Points (*10) :

Sami : 938
Neo : 910
Scoub : 863
Karel : 839
...
15° : Salim : 594
16° : Moll : 539
17° : Clbrun : 531
18° : Anton : 496

So the bonus of 150 points is not negligible but if it pass to 200 points it does not shock me.

[clbrun]

the aim of the barrages is to correct the inequity of the poules levels : a guy #8 in poule A might be favorised compared to another guy #9 in death poule B.

with the SB, the whole system is potentatially inequitable since each guy plays against different opponents, so it is impossible to know which guys might have been favorised or not, and thus to determine the "extense" of the barrages... so why 15vs18 and not 14vs19? or just 16vs17 and no other barrage?
and it would be also be a nonsense to play a barrage against a guy we already faced in group phasis... 

i didn't care about 2013 bonifs (and other rules) since i wasn't involved into this cdm 

[djo]

The aim of the barrages is to correct the inequity of the poules levels

As I have yet said, it's more a 1/16 final (partial) than a "barrage" with the SB cause the inequity have yet be count with the average of your opponent!
I speak about 2 matches here (16vs17 & 15vs18) to do as the other year (2012 and 2013) but do what you want I don't care : you could do 3 matches if you want and go also until 9vs24... and If you don't want these 1/16finals it's ok for me but then don't cry if the qualification played with 1 point

[clbrun]

for me barrages have never been like a 1/16... it was really just to compense inequities with 4 groups levels (but it would not be necessary with only 2 groups for me), so it makes less sense with SB according to me, especially because the whole system is unequitable in some way.
and anyway there may be complaints about the ranking because some players may not understand why they are behind others, or because they would have qualified if they could have played against a "normal opponent" instaed of against a top player at the last match... so only 1 point wouldn't be the only thing that can make some players cry 

[djo]

for me barrages have never been like a 1/16... it was really just to compense inequities with 4 groups levels (but it would not be necessary with only 2 groups for me), so it makes less sense with SB according to me, especially because the whole system is unequitable in some way.
and anyway there may be complaints about the ranking because some players may not understand why they are behind others, or because they would have qualified if they could have played against a "normal opponent" instaed of against a top player at the last match... so only 1 point wouldn't be the only thing that can make some players cry 

It's your point of view. For myself even with the 1 group system i found more fair to play barrage for the last qualifying places cause it's bitching when the qualification play with a few details. But I'm able to accept the rules and if we said that this criteria do the ranking and there are no barrages, it's ok for me! Then the barrage gives the impression to more people that they can still qualify!

A vote maybe to know how many barrages we would like to play?

None
1?
2?
4?
8?

[Geo]

Je suis favorable au système belge, surtout si nous sommes près ou plus de 40 participants cette année.

Mais un système classique à 3 ou 4 poules me conviendrait également. Il y aurait certes des "injustices", mais regardez la coupe du monde de foot ! 8 poules de 4 équipes tirées au sort ! C'est bien plus "aléatoire" que 3 ou 4 poules pour 40 participants. Pourtant, ça fait partie du charme de la compétition je trouve.

[Antistar]

Comme je n'ai pas de le courage de tout relire: d'où est venue l'idée de ressortir le système de 2012 alors qu'il est acquis et fermement entériné qu'on optera pour le système normale ou bien le SB en fonction de l'affluence?

[djo]

Comme je n'ai pas de le courage de tout relire: d'où est venue l'idée de ressortir le système de 2012 alors qu'il est acquis et fermement entériné qu'on optera pour le système normale ou bien le SB en fonction de l'affluence?

Pcq tout le monde mélange tout... j'avais à un moment signalé qu'avec le SB et un shakedown high on aurait en terme d'adversaires rencontrés qqch d'aussi varié que 2012 (voire même plus varié). Mais il n'est pas question de revenir là-dessus ... ce serait un pas en arrière

[Moll]

I think the big issue with having barrages if using the (horrible, cdm ruining ) SB is that it will be highly likely that the players will have already played each other, so if the result of the first game between them was a win for the higher ranked player to begin with it would be very unfair (imo) to make them play again. With the pool (or poule as you Frenchies like to call it) system I can understand having the barrages, but for the love of god call them something else (playoffs perhaps).

Less than 7 weeks to go.

[djo]

I think the big issue with having barrages if using the (horrible, cdm ruining ) SB is that it will be highly likely that the players will have already played each other, so if the result of the first game between them was a win for the higher ranked player to begin with it would be very unfair (imo) to make them play again. With the pool (or poule as you Frenchies like to call it) system I can understand having the barrages, but for the love of god call them something else (playoffs perhaps).

As I have yet said it's more a 1/16° (partial) final than a "barrage" . And yes maybe that match have been yet played during the pool but a knockout match with public is very different so it's really another match!

The question is : 2 or another number (1, 4... 8 is the max) of sixteenth partial final?

[Antistar]

djo, what is your initial system (I mean, the way you developed it by yourself at first) looking like after the 15 (?) groupstage matches? Are only the top 16 players automatically qualified for the round of 16 or is there a knockout stage ("barrages" then) based on the 2013 system?

[djo]

djo, what is your initial system (I mean, the way you developed it by yourself at first) looking like after the 15 (?) groupstage matches? Are only the top 16 players automatically qualified for the round of 16 or is there a knockout stage ("barrages" then) based on the 2013 system?

A knockout stage with only 2 matches for the last 2 qualify (like 2012 and 2013)

[Antistar]

So why would there be any need to change this?

For fuck's sake, let's stop trying to change everything, SB + knockoutstage for 15/16/17/18 ranked players is a great base and we don't have to discuss this.

[djo]

C'est toujours un plaisir de se faire agresser
Si j'ai mis ça sur le tapis c'est pcq certaines personnes ont demandé qu'il y ai discussion sur le sujet...

so why 15vs18 and not 14vs19? or just 16vs17 and no other barrage?
and it would be also be a nonsense to play a barrage against a guy we already faced in group phasis... 

Visiblement les débats tu en as eu assez... le dernier à trancher reste donc le nombre de cup en GP, avec le vote cela devrait être assez facile pour toi