CDM 2015: merging with MK64 world championships, good idea or not?

[KVD]

I am starting this topic after discussing this idea at some length with Matthias Rustemeyer, the MK64 #1 and main organizer of the annual MK64 World Championships.
He expressed the desire to join these 2 events under 1 roof next year. Some of the CDM community members (Mario, Moll and me at least) already expressed to like this idea in principle, so let's see if we can take it to the next level.

Before I go into any further detail I want to post the disclaimer that this would not mean that the actual competitions & tournaments of SMK and MK64 would interact in any way. The set-up of CDM would be as if the MK64 competition does not exist; in other words, it would be exactly like we're used to/want it to be. It is also important to realize that the MK64 WC has a limited nr of participants (around 10 competitors in previous 2 editions), as it has only been held twice in the past (both times in Germany). In these previous editions there was only 1 day reserved/required to get all the 'official' tournaments done.
This topic is just to  feel what the general vibe of the CDM community is regarding this idea. So feel free to comment and discuss what you think would work and what not.

Just to be a bit clearer on the 3 options in the poll:
1) Yes, we have room to organize/host an MK64 WC in parallel: The MK64 competition would be run alongside the CDM tournaments. Example, on SMK MR day, MK64 would also have their VS-mode tournament, etc. This might require some complicated logistics, though it should be possible.
2) Yes, we have room to organize/host an MK64 WC in the flanking days: The MK64 competition would take place when there is no SMK action scheduled at the same time. If we are going to reserve an extra day to play the SMK TT tournament, there will probably still be time left to do the MK64 TT on that day as well for example. And the ceremony day could then be used for the rest of the MK64 action. In theory I think all could be done on the Saturday as well, considering previous editions of the event.
3) No, there is no room for this whatsoever: The CDM is packed to the brim as it is, let's not make it even busier.

Personally I think there would be room for joining forces and that there would be mutual benefit from this cross-breeding. People like Matthias, MJ and VAJ would participate in the SMK events, whereas I would do the opposite and join in the MK64 ones (provided they would be played on different days, so not in parallel). Publicity-wise 'uniting' SMK and MK64 (the 2 real MK classics) events would also be a very positive move, I'd say.

Discuss! 

[Moll]

Actually I'm very against the idea as being able to "compete" in both karts at the same time/event just wouldn't be possible for me so I'd be forced to choose between the two (and without retreading previously posted feelings about cdm 2014 I'd say that I would most likely choose mk64).

This year even with over 2 weeks between the events I didn't have time to practice for SMK enough to be anywhere near my best (and the year before it was the other way round with mk64 coming just after cdm and suffering because of lack of prep) and there is no way I can practice two karts at the same time (not enough free time). I'd prefer both events were kept separate with at least a month between them.

FYI: The doing all the tourneys on the same day was more because of some people not being able to come until the Friday evening for mk64 (event was from Weds-Sun), if everyone had been able to make the whole event then I'm sure we would have split the modes over different days (like we did in 2013).

[tif]

Well we already struggle to have enough tv every year (Drew and I even had to have one on our knees on the way to La Suze) as is so I doubt we'll be able to bring a proper amount for two tournaments.

Also this would have to be done in parallel and as Dave pointed out it'd force people to make a choice between both tournaments which might be unfair for a handful of players (Anna, Moll and potentially others that I can't think of).

So yea don't think it can be done even though I would love it if it happened

[KVD]

Also this would have to be done in parallel

Nope, it doesn't have to be done in parallel, see option 2.

[Flo233]

The idea is attractive but if think it will be difficult for organisation.
If we do the 2 events the same week you could have much than 10 players playing for the MK64 tournament i guess, so there is pretty no chance to make it in only one day.
And players who have some ambitions in both game will probably have some trouble to be at their best 

[ScouB]

Also this would have to be done in parallel

Nope, it doesn't have to be done in parallel, see option 2.

This would mean booking the venue for 2 weeks. Quite difficult imo, plus very expensive, since i doubt this would bring the double of participants.

[ScouB]

Also this would have to be done in parallel

Nope, it doesn't have to be done in parallel, see option 2.

This would mean booking the venue for 2 weeks. Quite difficult imo, plus very expensive, since i doubt this would bring the double of participants.

Except if by mk64 championship you meant a one day tourno (Like smk Ntsc open 2012)

[Antistar]

Except if by mk64 championship you meant a one day tourno (Like smk Ntsc open 2012)

This is what option 2 suggests.

I think that could be done if we book the venue for an entire week, starting TT on Monday, then using Friday and Saturday for SMK prizes ceremony then MK64 tournaments, until the dawn of the last day

Parallel championships are a very bad idea and I think it will be almost impossible to organize this properly, even with all the experience we have.

[Moll]

Also we would need a much better internet connection than this year if this were to happen, as we struggled with one stream let alone two. Unless you envisage no mk64 streaming at all while SMK takes place. For the Germany mk64 meets we streamed pretty much non-stop the whole event including all the practice and messing about (the idea was to have two streams running continually but we had IT issues and had to limit it to one), I think it would be a shame to restrict the streaming to just one day or just the tourno matches.

[KVD]

Except if by mk64 championship you meant a one day tourno (Like smk Ntsc open 2012)

This is what option 2 suggests.

I think that could be done if we book the venue for an entire week, starting TT on Monday, then using Friday and Saturday for SMK prizes ceremony then MK64 tournaments, until the dawn of the last day

Parallel championships are a very bad idea and I think it will be almost impossible to organize this properly, even with all the experience we have.

I also think option 2 is the only possible option (at least definitely for the first attempt), roughly in the way that you outline it. Well unless you'd go for option 3 of course. I do see Moll's argument of finding it problematic for a person that is ambitious in both games. I would probably feel the same way if I was really competitive in MK64 as well. EVO proves that this can be done though (people routinely entering different versions of SF).

The internet connection HAS to be improved anyhow, no matter which way this specific idea ends up going. Two or even three streams would be perfectly doable with a good connection and sufficient capturing equipment. If we end up with a crappy internet connection for 1 more year, I'd be extremely disillusioned (probably pissed off even). 
In fact, if I lived in France, I would personally oversee that this specific aspect would be arranged in good order for next year. Maybe I could even pull some strings from NL, but I guess that would be tricky and I'd still end up needing help from a Frenchie.

[Champion de la TOC]

The only way this would remotely work would be to do it like 2012 and yes have it on ceremony day + one extra day after. Have a week for cdm then.

Of course like Moll said not suitable to train for both games. If most of the MK64 players feel the same then scrap the whole idea and keep them separated as it is currently.

There are so many problems with the multiplayer mechanics on MK64 anyway that training there wouldn't make much difference. Only TT seems to function correctly. So those competing both games may do well training SMK and leaving MK64 to chance. Sorry to disappoint the MK64 fans so early on but i wont be competing in it. Il have a couple of games on the side for fun or i will watch / help out a bit only.

The setup will be a lot of work, depending how many MK64ers can come.

On the plus side, if they do compete in SMK as well it could be great for the communities and combination of retro classics etc.

[tif]

Except if by mk64 championship you meant a one day tourno (Like smk Ntsc open 2012)

I also think option 2 is the only possible option (at least definitely for the first attempt), roughly in the way that you outline it. Well unless you'd go for option 3 of course. I do see Moll's argument of finding it problematic for a person that is ambitious in both games. I would probably feel the same way if I was really competitive in MK64 as well. EVO proves that this can be done though (people routinely entering different versions of SF).

EVO uses the double elimination format iirc so tournies obviously go much faster. We can't afford to use that system as it would mean having people kicked out after playing only 2 games.

The only way I can see this project happen is by extending the duration of CDM like it was in 2012.  But that would prolly mean making the CDM more expensive than it already is.

[djo]

More MK64 mean less SMK!
We could gain one day for MK64 but loose then one for SMK ... not sure people will loved that idea

[Champion de la TOC]

Double elimination sucks anyway.

"You just lost... but go on have one more chance to try and get through on the other side of the bracket"  No thanks...

How many people exactly would want to come for MK64 and how many current CDM players want to keep into it? Just want to see the scale of it. Would it bring more from USA?

[Moll]

There are so many problems with the multiplayer mechanics on MK64 anyway that training there wouldn't make much difference.

Actually practice really does help with mk64 multiplayer, of course there can be a bit more randomness than SMK (lightenings more common, blue shells etc) and 4p vs can descend to chaos on some tracks but as we saw with the last two Germany meets the best/most practiced players (in multiplayer) do tend to win out in the end.

I'm also not saying that other people wouldn't be able to play/practice both karts ok, just I know that I can't (I'm very much a one kart at a time kinda guy).