Auteur Sujet: CDM 2020 Decision Proposal  (Lu 5795 fois)

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CDM 2020 Decision Proposal
« le: 28 janvier 2020, à 10:57:53 »
Hello everyone, announcement time!
To start us off, as already reported, the CDM 2020 dates have been confirmed for the week of 18-22 August. No matter whether the Gasny or Alphen bid ends up being selected. 

As scheduled, we had a long chat about the CDM 2020 proposals at Winter Cup. Representing the Gasny bid were Adrien & Gros_Dede. Representing the IASMK were Patrick, FF and me (and Anton representing ScouB’s place). Patrick, Lafungo and me also represented the Alphen bid, so we were in effect wearing two caps. Though this can be hard, of course we tried our best to remain as objective as possible throughout the discussions taking place. There was a lot of input from others as well (Neo & Sophie for instance) and pretty much everyone present had a say. Also in the discussions on the forum and on WhatsApp leading up to the Winter Cup event. 

Adrien and some of the other French players present explained that the costs of the Alphen deal (it being in a bar and lack of camping options) are preventing core community members who are low on funds from attending. However, we explained if Alphen is chosen again campers can be reassured that there is a campsite option (Didier Bigot stayed there in 2018). The distance to the Esports game arena is 4 km. Adrien also explained that even though they respect the IASMK mission to continue more down the Esports road* in the future, they would love to give it one last shot at a traditional countryside CDM. We as IASMK understand and respect these concerns and wishes; and as individuals all of us have reserved a warm place in our hearts for what the old school CDM experience represents. That is not to dismiss the Alphen experience at all btw, which in our view manages to retain a good mix of these old values and adding some new ones to the mix. But it is undeniable that the Gasny venue and location can provide an atmosphere that is impossible to recreate in a gaming bar in a city.

From the IASMK side we explained what we view as the big remaining issues with the Gasny deal, detailing our concerns about stream stability and housing. Thankfully Adrien & Gros_Dede managed to relieve a good few of these concerns, explaining which issues can certainly be overcome and what still needs to be investigated. Therefore, Adrien & Gros_Dede proposed to investigate if these remaining challenges can be overcome and will report back to everyone in a few weeks. Both parties have agreed (at Adrien’s suggestion) that the final decision will be made by the IASMK. If their report is positive and is sufficiently convincing, we as the IASMK feel that the Gasny bid will be the option to go for in 2020, with the disclaimer that we as a bureau determine what is sufficiently convincing. 

Let us briefly detail the remaining concerns to be addressed by team Gasny in the coming period:

Internet:
For starters the 4G connection in Gasny is exceptionally good (especially for the countryside) and will allow 780p streams (1080p is overkill for a SNES game like SMK). The main remaining issue however is connection stability (which is notoriously problematic with wireless connections). All CDM participants will connect via a different dedicated WiFi channel as to not clutter up the connection (or they can use their own 4G, provided that does not interfere with the stream connection). As for connection stability, we can theorize about it at length, but that just needs to be tested. Adrien and Gros_Dede will perform exhaustive streaming tests in the coming weeks on location to verify that the upload connection can remain stable enough for a viable stream (that is, no endless buffering or stream cuts every ~20 minutes or less).

Housing:
A good proportion of the CDM regulars nowadays expects / demands a private place to sleep in the form of a hotel or AirBnB. As Lafungo’s post in the forum topic last Thursday pointed out, there may not be a sufficient number of affordable rooms to book nearby the Gasny venue. Adrien & Gros_Dede will make an in depth investigation in the coming weeks to check how many rooms we can actually expect to get. They can for example call all the local establishments and get more in detail answers than you can get from a mere online investigation. Also, Gros_Dede explained that the ‘staying at the locals’ option may not be as impractical as it may seem at first glance. A good number of these deals has the guests staying in distinct compartments of the house, with individual, separate access keys. In other words there will be no need to bother the owners at 2AM in the night after a good few beers down the chimney… ;D
We expect a full report on how many such constructions are and will remain available (where we are independent of interaction with families for daily access), how we can make use of these facilities (where as foreigners do we sign up for this for example?) and what the costs will be. Same for the hotels: how many rooms, can we get a guarantee on availability (up to a reasonable deadline) and costs for the different options?

Small reminder that for the people that are camping minded, there is a camping nearby and in principle there is room for EVERYONE to sleep at the venue itself (which has a functioning shower), provided people bring their own sleeping gear. So that’s always a very nice backup option to keep in mind.

Decision process:
We as the IASMK panel have sensed that having a community vote to decide whether we will go with the Gasny or Alphen bid is not the way go this time around. Such votes and the campaigning and discussions surrounding it seem to sow discord in the community, rather than bringing it closer together. Quite a few people I have spoken to in the past year or so have shared this sentiment with me in private, wishing to go back to the days where person X just announces where the CDM is to be held that year. So that is the way it will be, though we will always try to keep everyone’s interests in mind. Also as stated before both parties that made a bid have agreed with this course of action. It is important to stress that this is not going to be a dictatorial decision. There needs to be agreement within the IASMK (Patrick, Lars, FF, ScouB and me) and if there is significant community feedback we can adjust accordingly.

Summary:
Adrien & Gros_Dede will explore if the Gasny bid can overcome the remaining challenges in the coming weeks and will report back to us before the end of February. Thereafter the IASMK will decide where the CDM 2020 will be held.
 

*Our mission with IASMK is absolutely NOT to go full Esports with SMK CDM, we do not have the desire or delusion to become rich and famous gaming superstars. But we do strive for optimizing exposure via stream(s) and media coverage to reach potential new (young) recruits that can fill the ranks for future CDMs. To this end we will ask whether we can use the Esports Game Arena Twitch channel even if the CDM event might take place in Gasny (as it’s a partnered Twitch channel with mainpage pull), under the expressed intent that we will return to the EGA in 2021 (with better negotiating conditions as we have a viable alternative).
« Modifié: 28 janvier 2020, à 11:57:56 par KVD »

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CDM 2020 Decision Proposal
« Réponse #1 le: 28 janvier 2020, à 11:20:17 »
Merci pour la traduction Sophie!  :D

Bonjour à toutes et tous, c'est l'heure des annonces !
Pour commencer, comme nous l'avons déjà signalé, les dates du CDM 2020 ont été confirmées pour la semaine du 18 au 22 août . Peu importe que la candidature de Gasny ou d'Alphen soit retenue. 

Comme prévu, nous avons eu une longue discussion sur les propositions de CDM 2020 à la Winter Cup. La candidature de Gasny était représentée par Adrien & Gros_Dede. L'IASMK était représentée par Patrick, FF et moi-même (et Anton représentée ScouB). Patrick, Lafungo et moi avons également représenté la candidature d'Alphen, nous portions donc en fait deux casquettes. Bien que cela puisse être difficile, nous avons bien sûr fait de notre mieux pour rester aussi objectifs que possible tout au long des discussions qui ont eu lieu. D'autres personnes (Neo & Sophie par exemple) ont également apporté leur contribution et presque toutes les personnes présentes ont eu leur mot à dire. Des discussions sur le forum et sur le site WhatsApp ont également eu lieu avant la Winter Cup. 

Adrien et certains des autres joueurs français présents ont expliqué que les coûts de l'accord Alphen (le fait d'être dans un bar et de ne pas avoir de camping bon marché et proche comme alternative aux hôtels et aux AirBnBs) empêchent les membres du noyau dur de la communauté qui ont peu de fonds d'y assister. Mais, si la proposition Alphen devait être celle choisie pour 2020, que les campeurs se rassurent, le camping serait toujours une possibilité (Didier Bigot y était resté toute la semaine en 2018). Il faudra juste être véhiculé car c'est à 4 km de l'EGA.

Adrien et co ont également expliqué que, même s'ils respectent la mission de l'IASMK de continuer à l'avenir sur la voie de l' Esports*, ils aimeraient donner une dernière chance à un CDM oldschool. En tant qu'IASMK, nous comprenons et respectons ces préoccupations et, en tant qu'individus, nous avons tous réservé une place chaleureuse dans nos cœurs pour ce que représente l'expérience du CDM à l'ancienne. Cela ne veut pas dire que l'expérience Alphen n'est pas prise en compte, car elle parvient, selon nous, à conserver un bon mélange de ces anciennes valeurs et à en ajouter de nouvelles. Mais il est indéniable que le lieu et l'emplacement de Gasny peuvent offrir une atmosphère qu'il est impossible de recréer dans un bar esports en ville.

Du côté AISMK, nous avons expliqué ce que nous considérons comme les principaux problèmes qui subsistent avec l'accord de Gasny, en détaillant nos préoccupations concernant la stabilité des stream et le logement. Heureusement, Adrien & Gros_Dede ont réussi à dissiper une bonne partie de ces inquiétudes, en expliquant quels problèmes peuvent certainement être résolus et ce qui doit encore être examiné. C'est pourquoi Adrien & Gros_Dede ont proposé d'étudier si ces problèmes peuvent être résolus et feront un rapport à tout le monde dans quelques semaines. Les deux parties ont convenu (à la suggestion d'Adrien) que la décision finale sera prise par l'IASMK. Si leur rapport est positif et suffisamment convaincant, l'IASMK estime que l'offre de Gasny sera l'option à retenir en 2020, avec l'avertissement que nous, en tant que bureau, déterminons ce qui est suffisamment convaincant. 

Détaillons brièvement les préoccupations restantes auxquelles l'équipe Gasny devra répondre au cours de la période à venir :

Internet :
Pour commencer, la connexion 4G à Gasny est exceptionnellement bonne (surtout pour la campagne) et permettra des flux 780p (1080p est excessif pour un jeu de SNES comme le SMK). La principale question qui reste cependant à résoudre est celle de la stabilité de la connexion (qui est notoirement problématique avec les connexions sans fil). Tous les participants au CDM se connecteront via un canal WiFi dédié différent afin de ne pas encombrer la connexion (ou ils peuvent utiliser leur propre 4G, à condition que cela n'interfère pas avec la connexion du flux). Quant à la stabilité de la connexion, on peut faire de longues théories à ce sujet, mais il suffit de la tester. Adrien et Gros_Dede effectueront des tests de streaming exhaustifs dans les semaines à venir sur place pour vérifier que la connexion de téléchargement peut rester suffisamment stable pour un flux viable (c'est-à-dire pas de mise en mémoire tampon sans fin ou de coupure de flux toutes les ~20 minutes ou moins).

Logement :
De nos jours, une bonne partie des habitués du CDM attend / exige un endroit privé pour dormir sous la forme d'un hôtel ou d'un AirBnB. Comme l'a fait remarquer Lafungo dans le sujet du forum jeudi dernier, il n'y a peut-être pas assez de chambres abordables à réserver à proximité du site de Gasny. Adrien & Gros_Dede vont faire une enquête approfondie dans les semaines à venir pour vérifier combien de chambres nous pouvons effectivement espérer obtenir. Ils peuvent par exemple appeler tous les établissements locaux et obtenir des réponses plus détaillées que celles que l'on peut obtenir par une simple enquête en ligne. De plus, Gros_Dede a expliqué que l'option "loger chez l'habitant" n'est pas aussi peu pratique qu'il n'y paraît à première vue. Dans bon nombre de ces contrats, les clients sont logés dans des compartiments distincts de la maison, avec des clés d'accès individuelles et séparées. En d'autres termes, il n'est pas nécessaire de déranger les propriétaires à 2 heures du matin après quelques bières dans le gosier...;D
Nous attendons un rapport complet sur le nombre de ces compartiments indépendants et leur disponibilité (où nous sommes indépendants de l'interaction avec les familles pour l'accès quotidien), comment nous pouvons utiliser ces installations (où, en tant qu'étrangers, nous nous inscrivons pour cela, par exemple ?) et quels seront les coûts. Même chose pour les hôtels : combien de chambres, pouvons-nous obtenir une garantie de disponibilité (dans un délai raisonnable) et de coûts pour les différentes options ?

Petit rappel que pour les personnes qui souhaitent camper, il y a un camping à proximité et qu'en principe il y a de la place pour TOUT LE MONDE pour dormir sur le site même (qui dispose d'une douche fonctionnelle), à condition que les personnes apportent leur propre équipement de couchage. C'est donc toujours une très bonne option de secours à garder à l'esprit.

Processus de décision :
En tant que panel de l'IASMK, nous avons senti que le fait d'avoir un vote de la communauté pour décider si nous irons avec la candidature de Gasny ou d'Alphen n'est pas la voie à suivre cette fois-ci. De tels votes et les campagnes et discussions qui les entourent semblent semer la discorde au sein de la communauté, plutôt que de la rapprocher. Un certain nombre de personnes à qui j'ai parlé au cours de l'année écoulée m'ont fait part de ce sentiment en privé, souhaitant revenir à l'époque où la personne X se contentait d'annoncer le lieu où le CDM devait se tenir cette année-là. Il en sera donc ainsi, même si nous essaierons toujours de garder à l'esprit les intérêts de chacun et, comme je l'ai dit, les deux parties qui ont fait une offre ont accepté cette ligne de conduite. Il est important de répéter que ce ne sera pas une décision dictatoriale. Des accords seront établis au sein de l'AISMK et s'il y a des retours contraires flagrants de la part de la communauté nous nous ajusterons en en tenant compte.

Résumé :
Adrien & Gros_Dede vont étudier si la candidature de Gasny peut surmonter ces difficultés dans les semaines à venir et nous feront un rapport avant la fin du mois de février. Ensuite, l'IASMK décidera du lieu où se tiendra le CDM 2020.


*Notre mission avec l'IASMK n'est absolument PAS rendre le CDM full Esports, nous n'avons pas le désir ou l'illusion de devenir des superstars du jeu riches et célèbres. Mais nous nous efforçons d'optimiser l'exposition via le(s) flux et la couverture médiatique pour atteindre les nouvelles (jeunes) recrues potentielles qui peuvent remplir les rangs des futurs CDM. À cette fin, nous demanderons si nous pouvons utiliser le canal Twitch de l'Esports Game Arena même si l'événement CDM pourrait avoir lieu à Gasny (car il s'agit d'un canal Twitch en partenariat avec une attraction en page d'accueil), dans l'intention expresse de revenir à l'EGA en 2021 (avec de meilleures conditions de négociation car nous avons une alternative viable).

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CDM 2020 Decision Proposal
« Réponse #2 le: 28 janvier 2020, à 12:50:06 »
Hi Karel and all,

Thank you for having the discussions and providing some kind of positive direction on how to handle the choice of venue for 2020.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Accommodation and Player Attendance

This is the biggest situation. In order for the Gasny plan to work, we need to make sure that there are enough accommodations for the players and they are within easy reach. From what I read last week, there were apparantly 45 places "available" but very spread out, some of them are not too far, but some of them may be further out and require cars to collect the players each day. After Lafungo's checks, it turns out that a number of them may have already been pre-booked, and the available places may only be as small as 15!? Even if it was 30... this number could shrink to 15 or less very very quickly. There are possibly French families and maybe elderly who will visit the countryside for their summer holidays and might book things early. Therefore these places which are not big hotels could disappear quickly, and only the remainder will be left between now and summer. Also, as money is an issue for everyone, not everyone will book today straight away either, some players will wait longer or even be lazy then suddenly it is too late. This is also up to the players to sort themselves out and be disciplined a bit, but if the room availability is too low then it will result in one thing. We will end up sleeping in the hall. There will be some and probably quite a few out of the total number that are happy to sleep in the hall, but for many of us, especially travelling from overseas and considering our ages not all being 20 - 25 anymore, it is probably not feasible. So we will need to rely on the rooms at accommodations.

So as an action point we will need to have an official confirmation for every single accommodation and every single room, of how many rooms they truly have available on their booking, and in their history (they will know this by looking back at their records from the previous years), what month their rooms usually sell out by on each year. They can definitely tell you "You need to book by [such and such Month] or it is possible our 1 or 2 bedrooms will be taken". This information is also needed so that we don't get to March and they say "oh yes... we are very sorry... we did have 2 rooms free yesterday but they have just been taken now". Then the promised number of rooms will suddenly change, and we are stuffed.

Due to communication difficulties also, if we do go to Gasny we will need help in arranging these accommodations if necessary. They might need to make some reservations or something in advance to hold rooms for everyone. Also some players may stay in groups of 2, 3, 4. So we need to know which rooms will be suitable for that. It will be very difficult for anyone not speaking much French to acquire something via the internet or telephone, just in case something goes wrong, and anyone is stuck in the countryside with suitcases.

Definitely if it turns out that there are not enough accommodations (less than 45 like Adrien originally thought), and only more like 15 or even 30 (which is likely to go down fast too as locals plan their summer country holidays), then the accommodation side is not suitable. A few won't mind camping and sleeping on the floor in the venue. But just in case the numbers grow big it could be possible this happens. If it ends up that we have 40 - 43 players, taking out those that will sleep at the venue on the floor, we might just, just... scrape getting by with 15 - 30 available rooms. But this is very borderline. But if a huge number of players from France travel which is likely, maybe a small amount will stay in accommodations, then around 30 or so from overseas, we need to be ready.

So it needs an absolute confirmation. Not a vague answer from any of the accommodations like "yes it should be ok", and we just accept that when it might not be.

Other than that, on a positive note, I am sure that the accommodations will all be very nice and provide everything that is needed. But there is also the transportation to get there, and make sure players don't get lost on the way. Not talking about Aron missing a train because he wanted a cigarette again, but well that could happen too. But it is easy for one of the overseas players who hadn't been to France much to take a wrong turn somewhere. There is time to plan for this anyway, but just need to think about that after the accommodation situation.

2. Internet connection

I am not a major technician when it comes to streaming, but you guys know what is required, and those who set up Alphen have provided the particular statistics to check so it can match with the minimum requirements. Apparantly the issue was on the upload side and if the stream cuts out now and then, which La Suze did a lot then it is no good. It doesn't mean that Gasny will be like this, but it is possible. If it is the case then it isn't suitable. So if thorough testing can be done and if it doesn't cut out at all like La Suze used to then that is positive. My sister and several others kept writing to me during La Suze CDMs "can you ask them to fix it, i cant see anything, it keeps cutting out". Eventually I just ignored their messages because there was no way to fix it. The 4G connection practically never worked (for me and some others). I don't mind going without that for a week. But maybe others need it. Again, it will probably work perfectly well in Gasny, and La Suze venue just had bad luck, but we need overseas players to test that as well. Going back to the streaming, players will want to watch around the world. I know some of our folk are not bothered with that but the quality and connection is important. Imagine if it was AGDQ, and the stream cut just a few times only in the whole week? Not every 20 minutes cutting out even. What would the viewers reactions be? Think of the far end audience when doing the testing. People want to watch us compete, and more will. If anything, it will get people talking about the venue which they will see on the camera too. This could put Gasny more on the map, and lead it to some growth for the future :) Alphen already has an established base as an esports venue and growing.


3. Conclusion and IASMK Decision

Definitely agree with the IASMK goals. Basically with the accommodation and internet issue, we need to get an "absolute and definite" answer and situation for it to work on every room etc. We can not leave some of the results to be "yes, this should probably be ok". It needs to be clear and cut "yes or no", "good or bad". February will be plenty of time for Adrien and Jeremy to look into this. Thanks in advance to them for their work and investigations to follow, it is very appreciated. In terms of the final decision, I would still consider a voting method at the end only on one condition. This is if the definite results back from Adrien and Jeremy are very on the borderline of passable where it might be a risk if we go to Gasny. If the results are all 100% proven to be Blue Skies and Green lights, then that is great. The IASMK can decide from there accordingly. But if it is in the middle, then a community vote might be fair then as a last resort. However this would need to be generated in a very fair way where there is no issues. Probably an e-mail vote with a maybe 2-3 people closely managing this and only previous and recent  CDM competitors (maybe those who have been present in at least 1 of the last 3-4 years for example) can take part in the vote as they will have had experience on what the recent CDMs are about and the important requirements are. Again IASMK can decide on a fair process here if it comes to that.

The last resort vote will enforce Karel's point if it comes to this situation: "It is important to stress that this is not going to be a dictatorial decision."

But before that, please also write all of your thoughts here carefully. Again the final line from Karel's post: "There needs to be agreement within the IASMK and if there is significant community feedback we can adjust accordingly."

Sorry for the long post as well, you get the idea. We look forward to hear the final answers from Adrien and Jeremy within 4 weeks and to have a great CDM together at one of the venues.  :)
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CDM 2020 Decision Proposal
« Réponse #3 le: 08 février 2020, à 20:01:23 »
My quick op...

Although I can see how much hard work and planning has gone into the Gasny proposal, the accommodation and travel possibilities are extremely offputting no matter how you look at it.
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CDM 2020 Decision Proposal
« Réponse #4 le: 02 mars 2020, à 13:22:46 »
My quick op...

Although I can see how much hard work and planning has gone into the Gasny proposal, the accommodation and travel possibilities are extremely offputting no matter how you look at it.

Extremely good point by Adam I have to agree, and many do share the same thoughts, but still I hope there would be a positive turnaround with full details for every single accommodation. At least then those who want to attend can; and need to book the limited accommodations quickly before they go.


Summary:
Adrien & Gros_Dede will explore if the Gasny bid can overcome the remaining challenges in the coming weeks and will report back to us before the end of February. Thereafter the IASMK will decide where the CDM 2020 will be held.

Karel:  As it is already beyond the end of February, I assume there is no good news yet (or at all)? Please let us know your final decision after you have discussed. Thanks.
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CDM 2020 Decision Proposal
« Réponse #5 le: 02 mars 2020, à 16:00:47 »
Adrien sent me an email with details this weekend (before the deadline). All will be reviewed and discussed in the coming days. We'll hopefully make a big announcement this week!  ;)

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CDM 2020 Decision Proposal
« Réponse #6 le: 05 mars 2020, à 16:45:37 »
Adrien sent me an email with details this weekend (before the deadline). All will be reviewed and discussed in the coming days. We'll hopefully make a big announcement this week!  ;)

Hi Karel, as discussed please take your time, lots going on at the moment.
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