SMK PAL Championships 2021 (CDE/SMKAS part 2)?!

[KVD]

First off, sorry for the English message, but DeepL is your friend!  https://www.deepl.com/en/translator

Hello fellow karterrrs!

It’s almost April already and no news about a potential SMK PAL Championships this summer. The reasons are obvious to anyone, it’s just very hard to plan any kind of meet-up involving more than 5 people while the COVID pandemic has not been resolved. However, there is reason for cautious optimism (vaccinations!). We as IASMK are planning to set the wheels into motion for a PAL SMK Championships in August, in the style of CDM/CDE/SMKAS. It probably will not surprise you when I say there are a lot of uncertainties, but we can at least share the provisional concept we’re aiming for.

Location: Esports game arena (very likely the most suitable location, assuming they’ve reopened and are allowed to organize an event for an arbitrarily large number of people)

Dates: 3rd week of August as usual (16th-21st August). Just so people that are interested can take those dates off.

Rules: Here is the document for the tournament: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423885073285251074/825734832293806110/CDM_rules.txt

In all likelihood this will NOT be a full-fledged CDM (due to some intercontinental traveling restrictions expected to still be in place), but if this event takes place it will be the de facto SMK PAL championships of 2021; very much like SMKAS turned out to be for 2020 in retrospect. Whether we will call this a CDE (and count it for the official Championnat statistics) or a SMKAS part 2 is still up in the air and also depends on how the community decides to view the event to take place. There may still be a limited cap on how many people are allowed to participate, though this is impossible to predict in advance. The normal year CDM cap is 64 btw.
If you have any questions or remarks, please let us know. We’ll try to set the wheels in motion with the Esports arena soon (fingers crossed they survived the pandemic in ok health, both literally and figuratively).

Karel on behalf of the IASMK

[Narnet]

Bon, moi je vais parler en Français  .

Je trouve ça disons ... "péremptoire", de dire qu'un événement SMK où ne pourront pas venir tous les habitués qui le souhaitent, que ce soit pour des raisons de :
a) quarantaine/quatorzaine
b) ou d'interdiction de sortie d'un territoire ou d'entrée dans un territoire
c) ou des problèmes de vaccination, si certains n'auront pas encore eu accès à un vaccin d'ici là
d) de soumission à un test PCR, européen (ou chinois  )
e) limitation de participants parce que la salle ne devra pas contenir + de tant de personnes
sera d'office un CDM ; ou un "CDE".

Je trouve très engagé, et noble, et très motivé, de vouloir à tout prix organiser un événement SMK malgré cette p..... de pandémie.
Mais appeler ceci un CDM/CDE, non quoi.

Quand à dire (si j'ai bien compris ? désolé pour mon anglais) que le SMKAS pourrait être considéré comme le CDM 2020, hem ... On pensait que le CDM aurait lieu ultérieurement, il n'y avait pas de raison à se rendre forcément à cette exhibition ; à ce compte là, l'événement SMK 2020 qui réunissait le + de participants, c'était la Winter Cup à Paris en Janvier 2020, et c'est ça qui devrait servir "officiellement" de CDM 2020  .
Le CDM 2020 a été annulé, c'est comme ça. Comme d'autres événements sportifs. Et si le CDM 2021 doit être annulé également, bé ça serait comme ça aussi.
Genre l'Euro de cette année, si on dit à la moitié des pays engagés de ne pas participer, ça va être vachement bon esprit ...



Sinon, concernant le règlement : que le TT soit "mis" au même coefficient ("2") que les modes 2-Player.
L'an dernier, je n'avais rien dit, étant donné la conjoncture, et que c'était pour un tournoi Event/exhib, ça ne me dérangeait pas ; mais pour le CDM, si.
Mais bon, après,  ce n'est que mon avis. On va être 5 à s'exprimer ici, et je ne serai pas majoritaire.
C'est juste dommage qu'on n'ait pas fait un sondage sur ce point, avec un nombre "significatif" de joueurs de CDM ; comme on l'avait évoqué, d'ailleurs.

Je tiens à préciser que ce n'est pas la nouveau "confinement" qui me fait "râler". D'ailleurs, là, je ne râlais pas, je m'exprimais  .
Un event SMK, banco. Un CDM dans ces conditions, plutôt non.

PS : je précise que si l'an dernier, le CDM avait eu lieu à Gasny, en Octobre-novembre-décembre, avec 20 ou 15 personnes, comme finalement ça aurait pu être le cas, je n'aurais pas non plus "apprécié" qu'il soit considéré comme un CDM.

[ScouB]

+1 sur tout ton post Narnet.

[SparksF1]

Bhuel má táimid go léir ag déanamh teangacha éagsúla an bhféadfainn tosú le roinnt Gaeilge?

Well if the Paris Winter cup is going to be the De Facto 2020 CDM i hope Narnet still has the pieces of paper with the results 

On TT getting equal weighting with the other modes i feel 100% that it should do in the event of an extended format. It's the purest form of the game and i also don't think there would have been many times that it would have massively changed positions at the top of the overall rankings.

The fact that any sort of a kart meet is being attempted in these difficult times is a credit to Karel and all involved with IASMK. I hope that miracles happen and all us nutters get to meetup and have fun in a safe and enjoyable way.

[KVD]

@ Narnet and ScouB, I did not imply that SMKAS 2020 should be considered a CDM retrospectively. I just said that it was the de facto PAL SMK championships of 2020, that is hard to deny. It had much more of an official tournament structure than the Winter Cup (for example no Jey importing his drunk friends in the middle of the event  ), regardless of who participated. I'd like to eventually see SMKAS (and ASMKC 2019 & 2020 and future editions) to be added to the historical SMK tournament result archives at http://www.ffsmk.org/. Obviously NOT as CDMs, but both as standalone SMK championship series. This becomes even more crucial if we do decide to call the 2021 edition (if there will even be one) SMKAS 2.0 instead of CDE. I'm perfecty fine with NOT labeling it an official Championnat event btw, if that's the general community vibe. Then it'll just be SMKAS 2.0. For the record I also agree that a 15 people Gasny event would not have been a CDM in 2020.

About the rule changes, they were proposed more than a year ago on this very forum and no one bothered to reply. The window to object against this has long closed. I mean, feel free to do so, we will listen, but likely won't change them at this point (unless it becomes a very vocal majority). 

Also, please let's focus on the important message here: there might be an SMK event this year. 

[Antistar]

I don't think anyone wants any 2020 event to be considered retrospectively as a CDM, anyway. It's pretty obvious SMKAS was the closest to a CDM that year but it will never be regarded such as. This should have been suggested prior to the event and we also need to do so for 2021 since the situation will probably not evolve enough next August to have a regular CDM once again.

Oh, and I 100% agree on this part of Karel's post:

I'd like to eventually see SMKAS (and ASMKC 2019 & 2020 and future editions) to be added to the historical SMK tournament result archives at http://www.ffsmk.org/. Obviously NOT as CDMs, but both as standalone SMK championship series. This becomes even more crucial if we do decide to call the 2021 edition (if there will even be one) SMKAS 2.0 instead of CDE. I'm perfecty fine with NOT labeling it an official Championnat event btw, if that's the general community vibe. Then it'll just be SMKAS 2.0. For the record I also agree that a 15 people Gasny event would not have been a CDM in 2020.

[Jarmou]

La période est ce qu'elle est et elle draine son lot de bizarreries/désagréments/exceptions. (sans même parler des choses vraiment graves.)

En ce qui me concerne, peu importe l'appellation, mais comme ça a été dit, "il pourrait y avoir un événement SMK" cette année et franchement rien que ça me mettrait en joie.

[Narnet]

.....
For the record I also agree that a 15 people Gasny event would not have been a CDM in 2020.

About the rule changes, they were proposed more than a year ago on this very forum and no one bothered to reply. The window to object against this has long closed. I mean, feel free to do so, we will listen, but likely won't change them at this point (unless it becomes a very vocal majority). 

C'est une blague, c'est ça ? 

Règlement posté le 24 Septembre 2020, déjà ça fait 6 mois, pas un an.
Ensuite, 4 réactions là-dessus en 5 jours (perso, je préparais mes arguments ; par ailleurs, au delà du coefficient du TT,  j'avais quelques questions sur le système suisse : ses inconvénients (parce qu'il y en a), celui qui serait employé exactement, le barème de points) ; et 5 jours + tard, on apprend que le gîte prévu pour le CDM ne serait pas disponible  (dégâts des eaux, de mémoire). Déjà qu'il était dit genre ça serait un essai de règlement sur un CDM "particulier" de 15-20 personnes, tout ça au début de la 2eme vague du Covid (en tous cas, en France), pour un CDM 2020 qui était déjà quasiment mort et enterré, alors oui, excusez-moi je n'ai pas pris la peine de répondre, ce n'était déjà plus le moment.
5 jours de fenêtre de discussion donc, et pas 1 an ...

Étant donné que ce règlement redevient d'actualité, c'est maintenant que j'en parle. Mais pour un CDM 2021 très hypothétique, et avec notre 3eme "confinement", je ne suis même pas spécialement motivé pour en débattre ; surtout si j'ai l'impression que c'est déjà tranché ...

[KVD]

Bonjour Narnet.   

C'est une blague, c'est ça ? 

Unfortunately the real joke is what happened when none of the people that are so vocal about the rules stepped up to save the FFSMK when it was dying / disbanding. 

But let's not just point fingers here. What you say is true: this version of the rules document was proposed first in September 2020 in a period when focusing on the next tournament was difficult. We can of course empathize with this point you make.
You mentioned nothing of the Swiss system in your first post in this topic. You just referred to the fact that SMKAS was not a CDM (which we all agree on to begin with) and the old TT coefficient discussion, which is the one thing that has been debated extensively in the community more than a year ago (starting January 2020 to be precise). Discussions on the TT format change took place on this forum, at live events (Winter Cup and ASMKC), on the Discord and in the international SMK WhatsApp group. The vast majority of people that engaged were in favor of treating TT equally and justifying this by extending the Last Karter standing. There were a few voices against (a handful of French only), but I'm sure everyone understands it's unreasonable to expect unanimous support for every decision. We then field tested this new TT implementation at CDM 2019 and the extended format at SMKAS 2020 and it was very well received both times.

For the sake of clear communication then, it is possible we did not formally announce the final decision in this matter (even though the discussion ended over a year ago), but here it is: TT will be implemented in the fashion described by the rules outlined above in any tournament organized by the IASMK going forward.

The other changes were first suggested in the September 2020 topic (and some of them were also field tested and well received at SMKAS a month earlier). We intended to test the Swiss system at SMKAS, but it didn't make sense to do so with only a dozen players. So I think it is fair that these changes can still be up for discussion. I apologize for my tone making them seem almost final (I was mostly referring to the TT part there, which is the only thing you addressed in your first post). We have been discouraged by the lack of supportive messages about SMK events on this forum, so that may have triggered my tone a little. You say the window was 5 days, but the window was never closed so it's been open for at least 6 months. By the way, the proposed switch from Belgian to Swiss system is also largely born out of pragmaticism. I doubt even Djo (the creator) knows exactly how the Excel code works behind this system and of the people in the IASMK organisation only Patrick can sort of run it. And when I say sort of, I mean he does run into trouble with bugs and stuff almost every time it is used.

I will say the odds are high that this summer's SMK tournament will be a SMKAS part 2 and not an official Championnat (again), so it will give us one more opportunity to field test the new format and this time hopefully with a higher number of participants. For the sake of clear communication once again then: the format and associated rules that are being suggested and tested are not just for a spinoff tournament series. The intent is clear here: if the format is approved it will be applied to any SMK tournament organized by the IASMK tournament going forward (including CDM 2022, etc). I hope that is clear.    If you or anyone has any questions or remarks about the switch to a Swiss system or other proposed rules, now would be the time.

[salimalikoum]

يبدو الأمر نفسه عندما أقرأ باللغة الإنجليزية! أنا أفكر فقط أن الوقت محاكمة المشجعين بحاجة إلى أن يجادل بشفافية
 
خلاف ذلك ، وأنا في صالح بطولة الفرنسية مع الأجانب إذا كانوا يريدون / يمكن لأن الحدود قد تكون مغلقة! حتى على الإطلاق لا مصلحة في التخطيط لبطولة مثل العام الماضي!

[KVD]

مرحبا سالم ، مترجم جوجل يعمل 

Discussions on the TT format change took place on this forum, at live events (Winter Cup and ASMKC), on the Discord and in the international SMK WhatsApp group. The vast majority of people that engaged were in favor of treating TT equally and justifying this by extending the Last Karter standing. There were a few voices against (a handful of French only), but I'm sure everyone understands it's unreasonable to expect unanimous support for every decision. We then field tested this new TT implementation at CDM 2019 and the extended format at SMKAS 2020 and it was very well received both times.

For the sake of clear communication then, it is possible we did not formally announce the final decision in this matter (even though the discussion ended over a year ago), but here it is: TT will be implemented in the fashion described by the rules outlined above in any tournament organized by the IASMK going forward.

I don't know how we can possibly be more transparent than this. 

[salimalikoum]

Ce n'est pas officiel mais ça se passera ainsi pour tout tournoi IASMK !?  c'est donc officiel pour l'IASMK !
Perso, je me suis pas exprimé sur le sujet mais ça ne me choque pas du tout que le coeff soit augmenté, jusqu'à égalité aux autres ça ne m'arrange pas mais c'est quand même assez réglo parce que c'est très impressionnant le time trial et c'est la seule épreuve qui se joue en solo.
En revanche, on pourrait réhausser le coeff en battle !? 

Sinon, il faudrait se prononcer pour le championnat de cet été et prévoir un truc national qui tiendrait compte des conditions (frontières fermées) ! c'est la priorité du moment je pense !
on peut en parallèle prévoir un truc européen mais la dictature sanitairoriste n'offre rien de prévisible... on devrait donc privilégier un truc national à mon sens !

[KVD]

Doing a French based event somewhere this year would be nice of course (for those that cant go to NL), but I'll leave that up to you all of course. 
International travel is indeed complicated and probably will be for some time, but it is possible. Within the bounds of Europe at least.

[tif]

I think we should give tif extra points for being tif

[salimalikoum]

J'espère que le IASMK / CDE va se tenir ! normalement, ça ne devrait poser aucun souci ! Mais puisque l'anormal est devenu la norme, on risque d'en démordre si notre compét' perd le nord. Pour cela je vais m'entrainer sans relâche, employer mon nrj comme un JDR, repousser toutes les barrières humaines, pour qu'aucune frontière ne puisse stoper la compét' par des limites inhumaines, pass-droit mal aiguillés, vaccins contre l'intelligence, gendarmes ou militaires, notre rapidité et précision de karter sauront les faire taire !
Sinon... faudra prévoir autre chose